Off-topic chat. May contain offensive language or images.
User avatar
By neilt0
#502946
chrysostom wrote:Do you know what?

I'm actually quite angry about this now - if people want to raise awareness of racial inequality & persecution, there are REAL cases of this out there. There are worse things happening out there right now - if people want to have a go at Clarkson, then fine. But this isn't about racial equality, it's about people wanting to be outraged over something relatively minor.

This comes days after the Donald Sterling incident - a real case providing evidence of institutionalised racism, actively showing prejudice at a high level.

I disagree. Casual racism is insidious and has no signs of going away. It perpetuates stereotypes and increases discrimination.

There are those who think Sterling "didn't do anything" because he didn't physically harm people.

There are obviously degrees of racism, but Clarkson should not get a pass because "Hey, it's only a joke! Lighten up!" No, don't diminish his repeated, unapologetic acts.

He's only being incredibly apologetic and humble now because he knows if he doesn't grovel, he'll lose that £18m a year income.

Personally, I don't think he should be fired, but he should get a warning from the Beeb and there should be less tolerance (zero?) of any future infractions. He can be as racist as he likes at home with his little dog, as long as he doesn't take money from the public.
User avatar
By neilt0
#502948
neilt0 wrote:Personally, I don't think he should be fired, but he should get a warning from the Beeb and there should be less tolerance (zero?) of any future infractions. He can be as racist as he likes at home with his little dog, as long as he doesn't take money from the public.

The BBC agreed with me. Apart from the last part. He can't even be racist with his little dog: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-27266102
User avatar
By The Deadly
#502949
He wasn't racist with his dog, the dog just happened to have black hair. I'd argue that those throwing the accusation of racism are in fact the racists as they have made that link where nobody of sane mind would. Get a clue and get off your high horse.
User avatar
By chrysostom
#502951
Hah, I think the difference here is that I think he want trying to be controversial in the context. If it was 'banter' then I would have a completely different view.

The dog thing is suspect, as 1) he hates footballers & 2) he didn't simply call it Drogba/Didier. That was for teh bantz.
User avatar
By Topher
#502953
The Mail offline is also terrible.

Going back to Clarkson, I'd be interested to know what Chrysostom and Deadly think of this article because I think it's spot on. I have to warn you Deadly, it's the New Statesman so it may burn your right-wing eyes, but it's only one article.
User avatar
By The Deadly
#502954
The fundamental thing for me is the Clarkson thing is not racism it is an offensive word. A lot of clever people seem to believe that it is and it really worries me. Clarkson undeniably should have completely left out the offending word in the song he was singing but tried to mumble it in order to disguise said word. That was an error on his part and he's apologised. Should he have said the word and then followed it up by talking about black people in a derogatory way then it becomes more than an offensive word and turns into blatent racism. Another problem I have is that Jeremy Clarkson is a polarising figure and a lot of his enemies in the media are trying their level best to escalate the situation. The media is to blame for this issue becoming blown out of all proportion because of who said it and not what was said and how it was said.
User avatar
By Topher
#502955
He is only polarising because of the offensive things he has said in the past - that then also automatically warrants a higher level of media attention, because he has form, so clearly people who think he should have been sacked for things in the past are now wondering why he is still able to get away with things.

I have seen one comment that made me look at it slightly differently - not because of what he said, but because of the timing of when it came out - and that's the suggestion that Max Clifford may have leaked it to try and keep himself off the front pages.
User avatar
By The Deadly
#502956
If I flip the coin and think about what would happen if someone I hated did the same thing Clarkson did I'd probably want them sacked too. Sadly Piers Morgan can't be sacked from anything as he is unemployed. Unless Twitter irritant counts as a profession?
User avatar
By Topher
#502957
That's very objective of you and I agree with you on Morgan... if I think about what I think should have happened to, say, Chris if he was still doing Breakfast and had said it, I honestly think that I'd believe sacking was fair. I'd be disappointed at the end of the show, of course, but I don't think it's a defensible thing to have said.
User avatar
By chrysostom
#502967
The 2 real points from that article which actually address the issue:

"let’s look at that word for a moment, uncensored, in all its ugliness – in a manner that was meant to be mischievously offensive"

No it wasn't, it wasn't said 'cheekily', it was said in the manner of someone who grew up with the offensive version of the rhyme.

"Clarkson’s casual racism is the kind of thing that landlords think when they are deciding not to let properties to black people in the supposed multiracial utopia that is London. It is the kind of thing that led to the racist van campaign. The kind of thing that brings your kids home from school in floods of tears, that makes employers think twice before calling you to interview."

No it's bloody not.

The things which have genuinely, and deeply affected me haven't been misconceptions that 'Asians sweat curry', or questions as to whether my semen is brown/black - that's an indicator of ignorance. The ones which have hurt the most (to name a few); People shouting at me to go home while I'm in the street (most recently in Southsea last month), someone remarking about me in a pub that 'Muslims can't handle their drink' (last year), assumptions that my relationship with my girlfriend is hidden from my family, as for the shame it will bring (last week), being asked 'where I'm really from' (on a monthly basis) - and that's just the ones I can be bothered to recall.

Clarkson using this word without malice, in context of a rhyme was just that - an indicator of someone who (raised in a time of prejudice, and has form for varied types of prejudice) made a mistake born of his own personal ignorance. Even muttering the word was enough to cause offence - he was naive enough to think that muttering over the word would be enough to cover it (an indicator he wasn't proudly exclaiming the word as 'banter').

It wasn't.

And yes, whip up a brief spate of faux outrage - but I doubt that if you hear a borderline racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic comment in your day-to-day life that you ACTUALLY do something about it. All very well to say 'oh, yes - I'd NEVER be friends with someone who is prejudiced', but let me say this: We all are.

We all have tolerated prejudice (both mild and serious) within our daily lives, for reasons of self preservation - and the reaction to this Clarkson thing is that of a society which doesn't stand for any type of discrimination, full stop. Well we're not.

This is just another excuse for people to showcase how sensitive they are to the vulnerable on society through the medium of comment, without actually addressing larger issues. And quite frankly, is pissing me off.

Find something worth fighting for - there's plenty out there.

For instance: how would the UK have reacted if the snatched girls of Nigeria was to have taken place in a Caucasian country? Do you think it would be different? The sad answer is yes. Hundreds of non-White girls are driven into trafficking while waiting to be deported out of the UK on a daily basis, people don't care so much because these issues don't resonate with them in the same way as it was someone like them. Take the McCann situation for example.

Real racism & prejudice is much deeper than whether an old shouty man said the 'n' word without malice in an unbroadcasted recording, and if we're talking about a moral compass in race relations - within context, this Clarkson argument is miniscule & laughable.
User avatar
By Nicola_Red
#502970
chrysostom wrote:And yes, whip up a brief spate of faux outrage - but I doubt that if you hear a borderline racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic comment in your day-to-day life that you ACTUALLY do something about it. All very well to say 'oh, yes - I'd NEVER be friends with someone who is prejudiced', but let me say this: We all are.

We all have tolerated prejudice (both mild and serious) within our daily lives, for reasons of self preservation - and the reaction to this Clarkson thing is that of a society which doesn't stand for any type of discrimination, full stop. Well we're not.


This particularly really resonates with me. I try to call people out on sexism, homophobia and fat-shaming particularly as they're the issues that affect me personally, but it is SO DIFFICULT. Online particularly, you have to figure out when it's best to just keep your mouth shut, otherwise strangers will soon be tweeting you kindly informing you that you "just need some bacon and a good shag to loosen you up". And it's even worse when it's someone you know personally. How do you address with someone you work with that you object to the sexist, fat-shaming meme they casually posted on Facebook? You can't. You just hide them from your news feed and move on. Urgh.

With Clarkson, it's fairly obvious that the BBC wouldn't sack him, cos Top Gear is still such a big ratings winner for them and for BBC2 in particular. If they did, another channel would snap him up and produce a Top Gear copy show before you could blink.
User avatar
By dimtimjim
#502973
Nicola_Red wrote: you "just need some bacon and a good shag to loosen you up".


To be fair Nic, it's not that bad advice; would certainly make me feel better..! :D
User avatar
By dimtimjim
#502984
Ha haaa! Just had an email from my old boss (in Sheffield) - his wife has been on their (8 year old) sons laptop to check the search history...

'hot girls butts'
'hot girls beach bottom'
'hot girl kissing hot girl'

to name a few of the highlights..!

Obviously, not being my child, this is hilarious!!

My response was "at least he's googling girls".

Ah, the trials and tribulations of being a parent. Fun times.
User avatar
By Topher
#502985
dimtimjim wrote:My response was "at least he's googling girls".

...why would that be a relief then Timothy?
User avatar
By dimtimjim
#502987
Topher wrote:
dimtimjim wrote:My response was "at least he's googling girls".

...why would that be a relief then Timothy?


Christian family. Each to their own, but it does say "Adam and Eve" not "Adam and Steve" in the silly rule book... :wink:

chrysostom wrote:Hope there was a firewall!


And yes, things were in place on the laptop to filter results out accordingly, but that's not the point..!
User avatar
By The Deadly
#502988
dimtimjim wrote:
Topher wrote:
dimtimjim wrote:My response was "at least he's googling girls".

...why would that be a relief then Timothy?


Christian family. Each to their own, but it does say "Adam and Eve" not "Adam and Steve" in the silly rule book... :wink:

chrysostom wrote:Hope there was a firewall!


And yes, things were in place on the laptop to filter results out accordingly, but that's not the point..!


Obvious homophobia is obvious.
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